Comments and Notes HR40 Hearing
“HR40: Exploring the Path to Reparative Justice in America.”
Comments
The Witnesses
This hearing includes witnesses called by Democrats and Republicans. The Democrats called relevant witnesses with strong qualifications. The GOP called two famous Black men who are conservatives. And the white GOP ranking member had a Black GOP congressman act as the ranking member for the hearing. I wonder why.
The GOP
It was offensive to see how whiteness works. Putting up Black conservatives to oppose a study of reparations is an example of how whiteness mocks Black people. And for whatever reason, the GOP didn’t even bring people with qualifications. Herschel Walker sounded like an idiot. Democrats called this hearing, “HR40: Exploring the Path to Reparative Justice in America.” The GOP is saying they don’t want to go down the path.
The Democrats
On the Democratic side, although they called experts, they didn’t bother to learn how to pronounce their names. On the other hand, Sheila Jackson-Lee had her name spelled incorrectly on the monitor that identified her screen. Overall, Democrats seemed so eager to say reparations aren’t about money. Why are Democrats working so hard to say reparations aren’t about money? Who are they trying to lure and impress? The GOP won’t support anything. I think the public expects reparations to be comprehensive and include payments. Reparations requires emergency relief.
The other concern on the Democratic side is the focus on other groups besides Black people or American descendants of slavery. Why can’t there be a standalone initiative to address Black people. I think Democrats want a “one-and-done” on this bill. Democrats want a catchall. And I believe Biden has said he wants reparations to include Native Americans. I don’t think that’s a good idea. The country should address and redress all its wrongs specifically to each group.
Summary of Opening Statements
Chairman Steve Cohen, 0:25–13:00:
Opened the hearing with personal comments. He mentioned the three-fifths compromise, which leads to debate and disagreement later in the hearing.
Acting Ranking Member Burgess Owens, 13:01–19:03:
Spoke of the evils of socialism, and a meritocracy. He opposes reparations and wants to focus on history that inspires pride. Of Black people, he says, “We are not an oppressed people.” And he calls for unspecified policy changes.
COMMENTS: These comments by Burgess are specious. Racist whites have long cried about socialism. They demonize socialism because of greed; they don’t want to share with Black people. As far as a meritocracy, Trump and David Duke have called for a meritocracy. A meritocracy is not reality. A meritocracy is colorblind. A meritocracy allows the status quo to continue. Owens then appeals to pride and not being an oppressed people. If oppressed is not the word, what is? His comments remind me of Kemi Badenoch over in the UK Parliament who attacked critical race theory by saying, “My blackness is not victimhood; your whiteness is not oppression. There are Black people around the world working for whiteness. “We are not an oppressed people” is a way to say, “We don’t need justice.” And I am sure Owens will say Democratic policies are the problem, not GOP policies.
Chairman Jerrold Nadler, 19:08–23:22:
Emphasized programs vs checks.
COMMENTS: Here we have Democrats working hard to say reparations are about programs and not checks. They fail to realize, if it's for Black people, the GOP hates both.
Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee, 24:45–32:40:
Emphasized the mission of the commission to study and develop reparations.
COMMENTS: I like how Sheila Jackson-Lee says study AND develop reparation programs. It is not just a study, and I’m not sure if that’s clear. Maybe it is clear to the GOP.
Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State, 35:03–40:53:
Weber authored the California reparations bill which is law.
Weber has impressive knowledge about the history of slavery and violence in California.
COMMENTS: At the state level, California is leading the way. But California was not able to pass an affirmative action law. So, it’s questionable to me what level of support their reparations work will have and whether it will be sustainable.
E. Tendayi Achiume, Professor of Law, UCLA, United Nations special rapporteur on Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, 41:47–47:42:
Financial compensation may be necessary, but not sufficient.
International standards require a comprehensive approach.
Slavery is a root cause of racism, discrimination, and inequity.
COMMENTS: I think it’s important for the US to look globally on reparations. The US needs to learn from other countries what not to do.
Kathy Masaoka, Co-Chair, Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress, 48:29–53:35:
Shared the Japanese American experience with internment and reparations.
Masaoka initially opposed a study for reparations for Japanese internment because a study seems to suggest reparations were questionable.
Masaoka emphasized that Black people should say what reparations are, that reparations are owed, and Black people should guide what reparations should be.
Masaoka quoted from the Movement for Black Lives and said reparations should take as many forms as necessary.
COMMENTS: I appreciate that Masaoka was the only person to quote the Movement for Black Lives. Black people need to determine reparations. She also touched on my feeling about the need to study reparations.
Herschel Walker, Retired Football Player, 55:23–1:01:14:
Emphasized a biblical approach.
Claimed reparations are divisive and difficult to do.
COMMENTS: Herschel Walker is an unqualified dumbass on this subject. The House needs better guidelines on who can testify.
Larry Elder, Radio Host, 1:04:08–1:10:00:
Used Obama as a reason to oppose reparations.
“Racism has never been less a problem in America as it is today.”
Used MLK and the presidency, and Obama again, to oppose reparations.
Attacked Democrats for handouts.
COMMENTS: Elder went partisan right away. Why? He, like many whites, loves to put up more Black people to oppose reparations.
Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America, 1:10:38–1:15:39:
Long history of reparations effort.
Focused on financial benefit of reparations to the country.
No quick fix.
“Full reparations”
Cessation assurances/non-repetition.
Restitution – based on where we would be without the harm.
Compensation is obligatory.
Satisfaction – dignity for the harmed.
Rehabilitation.
COMMENTS: I like how Kamm Howard enumerates specifics.
Dreisen Heath, Researcher/Advocate US Program Human Rights Watch, 1:16:42 – 1:22:20:
Repair.
Rather than ask “why” ask “How.”
COMMENTS: 100% agree the question should not be why, but how. Unfortunately, the GOP is not on the same page.
Hilary Shelton, NAACP, Director, Washington Bureau 1:24:14 –1:32:34:
Reviewed history and mission of the NAACP.
Communicated support for HR40.
Called for HR40 to be put in place this year.
Cited research on slavery and talked about the consequences of slavery.
COMMENTS: I’m not sure why Shelton was there. These were his only comments. He could’ve put this in a letter. Another representative from another agency should’ve attended.
Q&A
Q: Representative Jackson-Lee: Address the disparities that exist for people of African descent in the United States
A: E. Tendayi Achiume, Professor of Law, UCLA, United Nations special rapporteur on Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance:
Reparations are about addressing injustices against individuals.
Reparations are about undoing structures of injustice connecting to the legacy of slavery.
Pointing to those who are succeeding can’t negate the persistent structures of injustice that have to be addressed by reparations.
COMMENTS: I appreciate the structural analysis.
Q Representative Jackson-Lee: What do you say to those who say reparations are simply about money?
A by Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America:
Five Areas of Injury to Address that Reparations Must Deal With:
Criminal Justice.
Education.
Wealth Gap/Poverty Gap.
Health – physical and mental.
Peoplehood – dealing with inferiority and superiority, the cultural harms.
Not just cash but these areas above too.
COMMENTS: Love the list, especially around peoplehood. I think my views on whiteness fit there.
Acting Ranking Member, Burgess Owens: spoke about the racism of the Democratic Party. Americans fought against slavery.
COMMENTS: Why is he bringing up the racism of the Democratic Party? Clearly, it’s a defense of the GOP. But it’s called white racism, not Democratic racism or Republican racism.
Q: Acting Ranking Member Burgess Owens: How did low unemployment numbers happen under the Trump administration?
A: Larry Elder, Radio Host:
Pointed to economic policies and the Reagan administration.
“Equal rights and equal results are different things.”
Pointed out the African role in slavery and other forms of slavery.
Mentioned all the Black leaders who won't come on his show.
Pointed to Black people, fatherhood, and Black leadership as the issue using a quote from Kweisi Mfume.
Spoke of the welfare state and men abandoning their financial responsibility and women marrying the government.
Point to Baltimore’s Black leadership and a Black president to say there’s no systemic and institutional racism.
COMMENTS: This question must go to the GOP belief that GOP economic policies are beneficial and necessary. The issue I have is that some pundits claim GOP policies are good and others do not. There’s no consensus. It’s as if facts do not exist and it’s up to interpretation. No matter what the GOP says, even with their policies, the gaps were still there. The rest of Elder’s comments are old racist talking points.
Q: Chairman Nadler to Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State:Highlight the difference in California approach and HR40.
A: Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State:
California approach is modelled after HR40.
California has a nine-person taskforce for reparations.
Goal is to use experts in the field and utilize the universities of California.
To collect the role that California played in enslavement and the impact.
Weber discussed wealth gaps.
This is not California’s first effort at reparations.
California will have hearings to educate Californians.
It’s not about giving money but putting money into budgets and programs to measure the impact and repair the damage.
Taskforce should be formed by June.
COMMENTS: I feel good about Weber, but it remains to be seen what California does and what the courts allow.
Q: Chairman Nadler: How can the commission address all the actors who benefited from unpaid labor?
A: Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America:
Actors to hold accountable and consider: State, Local, Institutions, Church, Individuals, Federal, and Corporations.
Gave example of the McCormick Family in Chicago who became wealthy from an invention they stole from an enslaved person.
Commission would look at corporations, foundations, and institutions to determine what they owe to ensure the gaps do not continue into the future.
COMMENTS: I think this is a good point about the numerous actors who benefitted from Black oppression who must be held accountable. Accountability must be global. And a reparations fund, somehow, should also accept donations.
Q: Chairman Jerrold Nadler: How would the commission deal with groups like Asians who suffered under the Chinese Exclusion Act?
A by Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America:
There are benefits to the nation when reparations for African Americans are instituted.
Every person that comes to the United States benefits from the historical struggle of African Americans and reparations will do the same.
COMMENTS: I have no idea why Nadler asked this question. I object because it is not relevant. This is problematic. And it says a lot about the approach by Democrats. They want this one bill to do too much, which means it won’t do enough. Kamm Howard, gave a great answer – everyone benefits from justice.
Representative Tom McClintock says chairman Cohen doesn’t understand the three-fifths compromise. He quotes Lincoln and Stephen Douglas about whether Black people were included in the “all men” in the declaration. Speaks about founders who opposed slavery. Quotes MLK on character and not color of skin. Calls for a colorblind society and says reparations are polarizing and unjust. Says no nation has struggled harder to end racism than America.
COMMENTS: The whiteness of these remarks is incredible. When the GOP talks about the country fighting and struggling against racism, who are they talking about? Black people pushed this country. This country has not done anything without a push. The GOP is trying to take credit for what Black people did. Whites have largely stood in the way and continue to stand in the way as the GOP is on HR40.
Q: Representative Tom McClintock: What closing thoughts do you have?
A by Larry Elder, Radio Host:
Bayard Rustin did not support race-based preferences.
Speaks of a Marshall Plan that was to be only ten years, but the plan was rejected.
Says this measure is divisive.
More Obama quotes on opposition to reparations.
Says young Black people have the highest self-esteem.
COMMENTS: Clearly these comments are not intended to reach Black people or Democrats. Elder illustrates the issue with quoting dead people – they may have changed their view if they continued to live. If Bayard Rustin didn’t support race-based preferences, he was wrong. If Obama didn’t support reparations, he was wrong. The most divisive thing in this country is the two Americas. The most divisive thing in this country is the division whites made. This measure seeks to end that division, which Elder says is Black people’s fault. I think Elder is wrong on his self-esteem study, and apparently the Doll Test does not exist.
Representative Deborah Ross: (comments only)
Says the work against racism is not done. Mentions North Carolina’s work against racism, and reparations for forced sterilizations. Insists on a conversation about the truth of the past and the harms. Says this resolution is a conversation, not a prescription. Wants to think about what we can all agree on going forward. Points to racial profiling and innocence issues in North Carolina. And hopes Congress can do the same.
COMMENTS: I noticed she didn’t say anything about reparations and Asheville. But she does give some good history.
Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee: Reiterates the purpose of the commission is to fact find and develop proposals for reparations.
Ranking Member, Mike Johnson, Q to Herschel Walker, Retired Football Player – anything you want to respond to?
A by Herschel Walker, Retired Football Player: does Ms. Jackson-Lee know the year of the pictures she’s holding up? (pictures of lynching). Says his mom questioned how anyone can pay for the harm done. Mentioned that history is not taught and it’s difficult to find facts on African American history.
COMMENTS: Herschel Walker is incoherent. He makes no sense. Notice how the GOP is just like, “Anything you want to respond to?” They cannot even come up with questions. They just want the Black people on their side to do the work.
Q: Ranking Member, Mike Johnson to Hershel Walker: Are there better ways to uplift minorities than direct payments?
A by Hershel Walker, Retired Football Player: The AA community has to come together as a group to take care of our own. That’s one of the biggest problems we have. No one has talked about responsibility today. Speaks about his childhood issues and overcoming with education. Says the fact-finding mission of HR40 will be difficult and confusing.
COMMENTS: I have an issue with whites throwing around the word “minorities” like it’s a natural phenomenon, as if Black people and people of color lost an election. And secondly, why ask Walker this question? If Democrats are saying over and over again that HR40 does not include direct payments, why is Johnson asking a question like it does? Misinformation for the base? And then, Walker says white things about personal responsibility.
Q: Ranking Member, Mike Johnson: What is the difference between equal rights and equal results?
A: Larry Elder, Radio Host: It’s about personal responsibility. The way to escape poverty is to finish high school, work hard, keep a job, and avoid criminal activity.
COMMENTS: The equal rights/equal results argument is specious. It pretends that gains and advantages aren’t cumulative. It pretends that rights and abilities are the same. To Elder’s point on poverty, Elder must not be familiar with the study in the New York Times about Black poverty and the likelihood of Black men falling back into poverty. And getting out of poverty is not the only measure. The racist wealth gap still exists when you are out of poverty. Elder doesn’t acknowledge that Black poverty is deeper than white poverty. Or that there are disparities by skin tone in America. Elder says disparities do not mean racism. But he does not support a study to determine if a disparity is from racism.
Representative Hank Johnson: clarifies the three-fifths compromise; speaks about the inability of Black people to trace their lineage like whites.
Q to Larry Elder, Radio Host: Do you know Charles Ogletree?
A: Larry Elder, Radio Host: Yes.
Representative Hank Johnson: quotes Professor Charles Ogletree who says reparations movement should not focus on payments to individuals because the damage has been done to a group, but not equally to the group, it must focus on the poorest of the poor and the bottom stuck to address those who have not benefitted from integration and affirmative action.
COMMENTS: I think this is a good point. I think reparations should include cash payments, but it should also address the intragroup disparities. I think this is what the ADOS movement tries to address. But ADOS loops it all under lineage without any further recognition of disparities by gender or skin tone, for examples. Also, the focus on the bottom, and therefore not the entire group, could be misguided. What’s to say the Black middle and top couldn’t be higher? Does too much focus on the bottom imply the middle and top should be grateful – the way whites demand and expect?
Q to Larry Elder, Radio Host: Do you believe there are Americans stuck at the bottom and the country should take action:
A by Larry Elder, Radio Host: Yes, there are Black people who are poor and stuck but it’s not from slavery and Jim Crow, it’s from the absence of fathers.
COMMENTS: I can’t stand this man. He might as well say, “It’s Black people’s fault.” Because even if I accept his argument, my next question is what caused the absence of fathers? I’m sure he won’t say the War on Drugs or other state violence. So, he might as well say, “It’s Black people’s fault.”
Q to Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America:What is your response?
A: Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America: Speaks of labor force participation and marriage rates. Says fatherless homes come from anti-Blackness in the country.
COMMENTS: Kamm Howard said what needed to be said.
Q: Representative Hank Johnson to E. Tendayi Achiume, Professor of Law, UCLA, United Nations special rapporteur on Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance: How can reparations eliminate health disparities for Black Americans?
A: E. Tendayi Achiume, Professor of Law, UCLA, United Nations special rapporteur on Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance: The bill is important to be able to answer those questions. Reparations can play a role in addressing health disparities because they are about undoing structures. The best thing is to do what this bill proposes and do an in-depth study.
Q: Representative Hank Johnson to Herschel Walker, Retired Football Player: Does it surprise you that HR40 does not include direct payments?
A: Herschel Walker, Retired Football Player: speaks about education and says payment is just one part of reparations.
Representative Hank Johnson reiterates that the bill is not about cash payments.
Representative Michelle Fischbach yields to Acting Ranking Member Burgess Owens; Owens ask Larry Elder if he has other comments.
A by Larry Elder, Radio Host: Disparate outcomes don’t mean racism. Talks about bank loans Black people received and still defaulted on the loans. Speaks about white suspects killed by the police. Says systemic racism against Black people is a lie. He asks, “Where is the evidence of police brutality against black people?”
COMMENTS: If facts don’t matter, why are we talking? If this is a matter of letting the opposition be heard...okay. But the Democrats need to pass these bills by force with their majority. Bringing the GOP along, which does not believe in facts, is not worth the effort.
Q to Herschel Walker, Retired Football Player: What message would you give to Black children today?
A by Herschel Walker, Retired Football Player: responsibility. Ask where’s the education for African-Americans. Asks about fact finding about Black-on-Black crime.
COMMENTS: Please read, “The Condemnation of Blackness” by Khalil Muhammad. Also, I’ve written that there is no such thing as Black-on-Black crime because white hands are always in the mix. Whites made these laws and systems. At best, it’s mixed. But it certainly is not Black-on-Black.
Representative Sylvia Garcia:
Is an original cosponsor.
Wants solutions through conversation, dialogue, and programs.
Reiterates no cash payments.
Says HR40 is a good first step.
Must affirm that Black Lives Matter.
Must eliminate the root causes of racial discrimination.
Urges everyone to support the bill.
Q to Kathy Masaoka, Co-Chair, Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress: Are justice and healing interconnected?
A by Kathy Masaoka, Co-Chair, Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress: Yes, the process brought out unknown stories and pain. The process provided understanding on self and family.
COMMENTS: I think Kathy Masaoka as a witness was important and helpful.
Q to Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State: Do you think other states need to do with California is doing to build a groundswell of support?
A Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State: No state should wait on the federal government. Federal and state work can happen at the same time. California had no opposition to the taskforce, it is bipartisan. Says white America’s conscience was seared by anti-Black violence. Says unemployment numbers that are large will look like a big drop but the disparities are still great. Expects California’s work will be informative and complement the federal government’s work.
COMMENTS: I am quite sure the GOP did not want to hear about the searing of white consciences. But I love that she said it. White consciences are anything but clear or white.
Representative Cori Bush: speaks of family history, laboring and working for the country. Shares a story of survival and enslavement, the Great Migration, speaks about the denial of the Homestead Act, and the GI Bill, and New Deal. Speaks of systemic, structural, and political violence passed by Congress. Calls on the federal government to account for its role.
Q to Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State: Why is it necessary for the federal government to play a role? What can the federal government learn from states?
A by Shirley Weber, California Secretary of State:
Federal government protects state laws.
Federal government has ultimate authority.
Federal government condones behavior and discriminatory practices.
California hopes to look at the injustices and fashion the response.
It's not about giving money but that the programs that exists can address the issue.
Hopes federal government will support California.
COMMENTS: I love that Cori Bush is on this committee. Excellent question and points to bring out about the federal government. But to be clear, the GOP is not saying it should be left to the states. The GOP wants none of it. Maybe moderate Democrats, like Biden, want it to be left to the states?
Chairman Steve Cohen: Refers to movies with Thurgood Marshall
Q to: Hilary Shelton: Did social and economic discrimination end with the Civil War, passage of civil rights, or election of Obama? Why should the federal government have a role? (Shelton appears to be gone)
A by Cohen himself: It did not end. It continues to this day. Says it’s not necessarily about money. Reparations are for slavery and the consequences of slavery not just slavery. Says reparations could be programs for beyond Black people, for people who’ve been oppressed. Cohen says he was right about the three-fifths compromise. Cohen gives a football analogy about the white team being ahead with better equipment.
COMMENTS: What kind of mediocrity and whiteness has put Cohen in charge of this hearing? And why again does Cohen have to mention that these reparations as programs can be beyond Black people, for people who’ve been oppressed? This is clearly anti-Blackness. Cohen is giving anti-Blackness and responding to anti-Blackness.
Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee:
Thanks the witnesses for their testimony.
Says the three-fifths was in the constitution and no other group was mentioned like that.
Says HR40 is about violence and disparities against Black people “and other Indigenous people” who may be included in the reparations.
In reference to HR40 and other groups, she says when you lift one boat, you lift all boats.
Reviews disparities in educational funding death, sentencing and prisons.
Apologizes to Japanese Americans for the internment.
There are 300 letters from Japanese Americans in support of reparations.
COMMENTS: Jackson-Lee mentions the singularity of Blackness in the constitution of whiteness. And yet, Democrats are talking about other groups and refuse to focus on Black people solely.
Q to Kathy Masaoka Co-Chair, Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress: on the support of Japanese Americans and the Civil Liberties Act
A by Kathy Masaoka, Co-Chair, Nikkei for Civil Rights & Redress: the Japanese community mobilized to submit the letters because they understand the importance of redress. Says this redress is mainstream. And thanks other communities that came in solidarity. Says redress was done and can be done. Says the Civil Liberties Act meant a lot to Japanese Americans.
COMMENTS: Again, Masaoka was an important witness. Feb 19 was the anniversary of FDR ordering Japanese internment in 1942. I’m not sure if committee members were aware of the date. If so, they didn’t mention it.
Q to Dreisen Heath, Researcher/Advocate US Program Human Rights Watch: How can the commission deal with poor water, sanitation, and environmental impacts?
A by Dreisen Heath, Researcher/Advocate US Program Human Rights Watch: A Harvard studies says if reparations had been administered the gaps would have been closed related to COVID for Black Americans and the country. Speaks about redlining across the country and divestment of resources. Need to look at health care specific reparation remedies. Speaks working to prevent preventable diseases and death.
Kamm Howard, National Male Co-Chair, National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America: explains the history behind a picture of a beaten man, who was enslaved.
Representative Sheila Jackson Lee: concludes with thanks to witnesses. Mentions Michael Brown from Ferguson and how recent that was. Speaks about racial profiling in Ferguson, continuing disparities and a legacy of slavery. She expects the country to welcome HR40.
Acting Ranking Member Owens: Gives thanks to the witnesses and allows Walker and Elder to give concluding remarks.
Hershel Walker, Retired Football Player: Asks why the constitution has not been held to what it says. Wants to heal all races and not demonize one group. Says he believes in forgiveness and going forward together. Quotes MLK.
Larry Elder, Radio Host: Gives dates on slavery. Says Lyndon Johnson atoned for slavery and war on poverty payments were atonements. Tells personal story about law school. Says Black people are behind because they don’t work as hard as other groups.
Acting Ranking Member Owens: speaks about his dad and being able to take advantage of the GI Bill. Speaks about rejection as motivation. Wants to point to the exceptions and those who overcame. Speaks negatively about California and its policies.
Chairman Cohen: members have 5 days to submit additional materials.
Cohen ends the hearing.
Note: The words above are not an official record. The words above are not a transcript. The words above are not complete. The words above are selective and paraphrased. Please see the House Judiciary site for the official record and information.